Email 11: Things are probably about to get serious

from Angela
to Hannah Cherry askyourpiercer@fattyscustomtattooz.com
cc Gilda Acosta monkeefly@gmail.com,
Fatty fatty@fattyscustomtattooz.com,
Josiah
date Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 6:42 PM
subject My tongue piercing (2)

Hi Hannah,

You know the tongue in the pictures, with the unsafe tongue piercing placement, is mine. You were the person who pierced it, after all.

However, I have amassed a significant amount of proof to back me up on this, since you've decided that it's a brilliant idea to simply deny it. It is terribly unfortunate for you that you've chosen this route, because now I've gone to the effort to compile and document everything. To be honest it puts you (and Fatty) in a pretty bad spot. It is probably a good idea to talk to your attorney.

The proof I have includes:

1. I have medical records from an emergency visit to the doctor. He treated me for my botched tongue piercing with antibiotics because he was concerned about infection.

2. I have ample photo documentation. I found a friend yesterday who has a high resolution camera, and we did a whole photo shoot that includes my face and the incorrectly-placed hole. In these pictures:
a. The hole is closing up, but you can still see it and my swollen glands.
b. If you look closely you can also see the teeth and the hole are the same in every single picture from day 1 to day 5, and in the ones with and without my face. Examined together, these pictures are all clearly of the same mouth - mine.

3. You have records on file that you pierced me, with my photo ID. We have credit card records that show we paid you for the piercing.

I'm attaching some of those pictures for your enjoyment and edification. These ones have my face in them, so you can't continue to claim that it's not me. I have even included two with my photo ID so that there is no confusion whatsoever.

Notes on the new pictures: They were all taken June 25, yesterday. AK id 1 and AK id 2 are to show you that my face matches my ID, and then the pose with my mouth open is the same person. It's anal retentive, I know, but I want to be crystal clear with you. AK zoom 1, AK zoom 2, AK zoom 3 are all the same picture, at various levels of zoom. This demonstrates that the hole is in my mouth, and its location. You can also achieve exactly the same zoom effect by simply zooming in on the picture "AK zoom 1" yourself. In case you want to compare these to the older pictures where the hole is fresher, I'm attaching AK June 20 - AK June 25. They show the clear progression of the hole in my mouth. Same teeth, same hole.

I have lots more pictures at high resolution (I have reduced the size on these so that I can send them to you).


Would you like to try to repair this situation with me now?

A very good start to calm us down would be to comply with the records request we submitted to Fatty, so we can see that you are cleaning/spore testing your autoclave, and you're at least sanitary and I'm not at risk for Hepatitis or something awful. The least you can do - and you should be willing to do this for any customer! - is show us that you're piercing and tattooing using proper sterility procedures.


Second, you realize that claiming I'm harassing you borders on the patently ridiculous, right? I am well within my rights to state my opinion of you online, and try to obtain a refund from you. My problems with you are not unprovoked. You are not a member of a protected class. I'm not threatening you harm, I'm not stalking you, I'm not even calling you on the telephone. I'm not trying to ruin your life. Every single action I have taken has centered around trying to hold you properly accountable for your mistakes, and chiefly to prevent you from hurting other people. I want to see you held to proper account for the harm you caused me by damaging my body, due to your gross negligence while piercing me.

There is a very large (legal) distinction between persistence in trying to get a reasonable recourse in the face of someone causing you bodily harm (a refund is an utterly reasonable request), and harassment.


This is karma coming to bite you in the ass, Hannah. Had you simply apologized profusely, refunded me money, and shown us the autoclave records so we knew I hadn't picked up a disease, we would have been pissed, left a bad Yelp review, and then moved on with our lives. Everyone makes mistakes, but what makes you such an unsafe piercer is the fact that you're not able or willing to recognize when you've screwed up, and help the person you've pierced make appropriate decisions about their health when you have. You're much too concerned about keeping your $75 bucks and never being wrong.


Finally, very generally: You should be ashamed of yourself. Shame on you for not taking responsibility for your actions.

Angela

AK id 1.jpg (not shown)
AK id 2.jpg (not shown)

Email 10: Hannah decides to go for the time-honored approach of "La la la if I can't see it then it must not be there"

It's an awesome approach because OF COURSE I could never ever manage to find ANY OTHER WAY to demonstrate or document evidence that it's my tongue that's fucked up.

She pierced it wrong, she was there, she very well knows that the tongue is my tongue. She's provoking me to go do even more documentation than I've already done, by threatening to lawyer up.

How stupid is this chick?


from Hannah Cherry askyourpiercer@fattyscustomtattooz.com
to Angela
date Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:05 PM
subject Re: My tongue piercing
hide details Jun 25 (1 day ago)
I do not know whose tongue is in the picture you sent me. I am contacting my attorney and you will probably be hearing from him from here on out if you try to harass me anymore.

Email 9: Am I starting to sound like a broken record?

I feel like I am. I keep have to ask her to help me understand why I have a hole through my frenulum, if she didn't pierce through my frenulum...

from Angela
to Hannah Cherry askyourpiercer@fattyscustomtattooz.com
cc Josiah
date Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 10:20 AM
subject Re: My tongue piercing

Hannah,

You said - "If giving you a refund would fix this then I would usually be more then happy to give you one, but I can see that it seems that you and your boyfriend are set out to destroy my livelihood, my life and my job."

We weren't as pissed as we are now at the beginning. You never offered, you never tried to make right, so don't claim that you would have given a refund had we not gotten angry. You had your chance before we got angry, and you didn't offer.

Besides, a refund should be offered not based on how angry I am or not, but rather on you doing the right thing - if you fuck up, you should give a refund. It's not about who I am, it's about who you are.

Now, would you please at least respond to my question. If you don't pierce through frenulums, because that's not the right placement, then why do I have a hole deep through my frenulum? See attached picture from today - starting to close up, but still visible.

Angela

Email 8

from Hannah Cherry askyourpiercer@fattyscustomtattooz.com
to Angela
date Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:57 AM
subject Re: My tongue piercing

Angela,
I did not offer a refund, what i said was "If giving you a refund would fix this then I would usually be more then happy to give you one, but I can see that it seems that you and your boyfriend are set out to destroy my livelihood, my life and my job."I'm not going to give you a refund for slandering me and trying to stop me from doing my job. You are very right about the industry and reputations, and my customers know I am a good piercer through word of mouth and all the great reviews about me on yelp. I have been at Fatty's for almost a year now, and I love working here and I have no intentions on quitting piercing. It is my life and if you look at my portfolio on line you will see I'm quite competent at it.
-Hannah

Email 7

from Angela
to Hannah Cherry askyourpiercer@fattyscustomtattooz.com
cc Josiah
date Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 9:45 AM
subject Re: My tongue piercing

Hannah,

You say that you don't pierce through the tongue web, as it is not the proper placement, and that "when I pierced you it did not look like it was placed through it." What about the multiple pictures that show my tongue piercing deep through the frenulum? I'm attaching another from three days after simply to make the point.

Had you been gracious (recognized your mistake, apologized, offered a refund) on Sunday when this all happened you would have mitigated a lot of the damage.

We have been asking you for a refund since early this week, and this is the first time you have mentioned that you would been willing to (yesterday by email you said: you "would not give a refund becuase there is no reason to"). But I would like to take you up on that. How can we go about this? Will you give it to Josiah, since he paid for it originally, or would it be to me? Please let me know how we can do this.

Once the refund is taken care of, I will stop emailing you, as we won't have any further reason to be in contact. Additionally, as I said before, I will amend my reviews on Yelp and BME (if possible; don't know how submissions work there) to reflect that you gave me a refund.

Piercing is a very self-regulated/reputation-based industry. There isn't licensing, so the only way people can find out who is competent and who is a hack is by doing research, word of mouth, reviews, etc. It isn't harassment for me to put my experience out there, giving people more information to judge for themselves. Again, if you're in the right, you have nothing to worry about, because everything I wrote is factual.

Please let me know how we can get the refund taken care of, so we can put this to bed.

Angela

Email 6: Hannah goes on the record about proper tongue piercing placement

Also, she seems to be confused about the definition of harassment.

(For the record, these emails are the sum total of any contact I've had with Hannah. My partner went twice the days after this happened, once to ask for a refund, and the next day because Fatty, the owner, wasn't there the first day. Persistent, yes, harassment, hardly.)


from Hannah Cherry askyourpiercer@fattyscustomtattooz.com
to Angela
date Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 6:27 AM
subject Re: My tongue piercing

Angela,
I do not place tongue piercings through the tongue webbing. I know they do not belong there, and when I pierced you it did not look like it was placed through it. Like I said, I am sorry you feel you had a bad experience. If giving you a refund would fix this then I would usually be more then happy to give you one, but I can see that it seems that you and your boyfriend are set out to destroy my livelihood, my life and my job. Please stop harassing me.
-Hannah

Email 5

I try to be more clear, and press her on the point that I HAVE A HOLE THROUGH MY FRENULUM. Which is really the issue.

Also, I has zing.

from Angela
to Hannah Cherry askyourpiercer@fattyscustomtattooz.com
cc Josiah
date Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:22 PM
subject Re: My tongue piercing

Hannah,

You say: "Finally, I know that you feel my jewelry selection and placement was inappropriate. However, I stand by my work."

If that's the case, would you please just confirm for me that you believe that the proper placement for a tongue piercing is through the frenulum? As you placed mine there, and you stand by your work, that is the only logical conclusion.

All other complaints I have about you are secondary to the placement through the frenulum. This is the crux of the matter.

Furthermore, your offers to re-pierce me are kind of baffling. You completely screwed up the first time. I wouldn't let you near me again with a stuffed animal, much less a piercing needle.

Angela

Email 4

from Hannah Cherry askyourpiercer@fattyscustomtattooz.com
to Angela
date Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 9:36 PM
subject Re: My tongue piercing

Angela,

I fully understand and appreciate that you had an unpleasant experience when I pierced your tongue. I know a number of things
happened that led to this- first the amount of pain you felt.
I respect that this was a very uncomfortable piercing for you, but I also know that every single person will have a different experience with any given piercing. For every one that 99% of people think is really easy, there is always going to be a few people that think it was the most painful one they have had.
Next, the fact that I drop the ball from your barbell. I know that this must have been stressful considering you had just felt alot of pain, but I think it is important to bring up that this DOES happen sometimes. Even the best piercer in the world is still a human, and dropping a ball can happen occasionally.
Finally, I know that you feel my jewelry selection and placement was inappropriate. However, I stand by my work. I put a tremendous amount of effort into constantly learning more about the field of piercings, and into staying current with industry standards. From piercer to piercer, you will find very different ways of doing things (just like with doctors), but these differences do not necessarily equate to right or wrong.
All this being said, it STILL concerns me if a customer feels they had a bad experience, and I would like to do what I can to resolve this with you. I am offering to re-pierce you for free if you come back to Fatty's.
I also understand that the intensity of the experience you had may have left you very angry- however I want to reassure you that I am very a capable and conscientious piercer, as well as a business person. It is important to me not to have left someone with a negative opinion of me, and I would like to fix that.



Hannah

P.S. swelling varies from customer to customer, and since you decided to remove you jewelry immediately after being pierced you may have removed the puncture wound's only way of draining. I'm sure this has caused swelling, which I informed to you would be normal. If you are really concerned then I suggest you make an appointment with you doctor and have him/her take a look. Make sure you are taking care of yourself and drinking plenty of fluids and getting enough rest. Please let me know if you have any other concerns.

Email 3

from Angela
to Hannah Cherry askyourpiercer@fattyscustomtattooz.com
cc Josiah
date Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 7:08 PM
subject Re: My tongue piercing

Hannah,

Every single thing I wrote in that Yelp review is factual. Slander is when someone says something false about you. I have attached multiple pictures to that review (5 so far). If you're in the right - if your piercing was correctly placed; if it's OK to be elusive about sharing equipment/autoclave testing information; if it's OK to fumble and drop a bead down someone's throat; if it's OK to be completely unwilling to refund someone money if they had a horrible experience with you - then you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Furthermore, I'm not making threats. I'm informing you that I am taking appropriate actions because I believe you are a health and safety risk. Again, if you're in the right - if you didn't lie to Josiah about spore testing on the first of June, if you placed my piercing correctly, etc. etc. - you have absolutely nothing to worry about.

Hannah, I'm honestly baffled. Did you even look at the pictures I attached? Would you be willing to state to me directly, in writing, that a tongue piercing is supposed to go deep through the frenulum, right through the saliva glands? Because the pictures clearly indicate that that's where you pierced mine. I really don't see how you're getting around that!

Angela

PS - There hasn't been much change in the very significant swelling I'm experiencing in my saliva glands. Just thought you'd like to know.

Email 2: Hannah comes up with a brilliant idea!

To make up for the first time she maimed me, she can do it again! For free!

from Hannah Cherry askyourpiercer@fattyscustomtattooz.com
to Angela
date Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 12:57 PM
subject Re: My tongue piercing

I am sorry that you feel you had a bad experience with your piercing, and I certainly do not like having unhappy customers. I told your boyfriend the best I could do was re-pierce your tongue, but that I would not give a refund becuase there is no reason to. The piercing looked fine to me, and I am sorry that you were not satisfied with it. I do not appreciate the slanderous review that you posted about me, but everyone is entitled to write whatever they want on those sites. I also do not appreciate the threats you are making towards me, threats will not help anyone in this situation. Again, I am sorry you were not happy with your piercing, and since you decided to take it out I am being nice enough to offer to pierce you again with no charge, despite your threats and rudeness towards me. It is never my wish to have a customer leave the shop unhappy, and I would like to do what is going to make you happy with your piercing experience at Fatty's even if that means piercing you again for free. Have a good day,
-Hannah

Further background

This gives some more perspective - the Yelp review my partner Josiah wrote several days after the piercing. I had to leave almost directly after the piercing, so he's been dealing with the shop since.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fatty's Custom Tattooz should be avoided like the plague, speaking from the experience of a dozen piercings and tattoos elsewhere. My interactions there surround piercings (not tattoos), and have to do with both piercer Hannah Cherry and owner Fatty. They come off as competent and knowledgeable at first blush, but their piercing knowledge is actually highly suspect. STAY. AWAY.

On June 20, I paid piercer Hannah Cherry to pierce my partner Angela K.'s tongue. When Ms. Cherry did so, she placed the barbell much too far back, directly through the glandular mass in Angela's sub-lingual frenulum. This is both unsafe and extremely painful. (See Angela K.'s review for further details and a link to the picture of the piercing.) Having two tongue piercings myself (done elsewhere), I could immediately see that Angela had been pierced incorrectly. I took Angela out of the store, sat her down outside in the shade and went back inside Fatty's.

I informed Ms. Cherry that the piercing had been placed too far back, and that this was unacceptable. Her response was noncommittal; at no point did Ms. Cherry even apologize, much less offer a refund.

I returned the next day, and the next, until owner Fatty was able to see me. My experience with Fatty was extremely disappointing, to say the least.

- When Fatty was told we had had a negative experience at his shop, he first suggested I didn't know what I was talking about. "What, so you've had a couple piercings and you think you know this one was done wrong? Is that it?" he asked me. I explained that in fact I have eleven piercings, two of which are in my tongue, and had gone through a lengthy examination of how far back they can go. He then told me he couldn't talk about it with me, that he could only talk about it with the person who had been pierced.

- When he was informed Angela was now in San Francisco and asked if he would speak with her by phone, he refused to talk to her on the phone, saying he would want to see the piercing.

- When I showed him a picture of the piercing (which I had on me), he claimed that all he was being shown was a picture of some person's tongue, and that he had no way of knowing if that was actually the person who had gotten pierced.

- When I gave up and told I had been given a date on the last time the autoclave had been tested and asked if he could confirm it, he refused to verify that I had been given the correct date, asking me to submit the request in writing.

- He furthermore stated that even if Hannah Cherry had lied to me about the date when his equipment was last tested, he wouldn't fire her because she had been with him for about a year and I was the first person to complain about her like this. This is not true; see other reviews to verify this.

At this point Hannah Cherry entered the room, claiming she had not pierced Angela too far back, and that she had not pierced Angela's frenulum. She continued to claim this until I showed her the picture of the hole in Angela's frenulum. She did not continue to claim this after seeing the picture.

Ultimately, Fatty refused to even apologize, much less offer me my money back. Even after seeing the pictures, he refused to verify the cleanliness of his equipment and he refused to verify or show concern for the truthfulness of his staff.

Although I have used Yelp for years, my experience here was so negative that it prompted me to actually join. I cannot trust Hannah to be competent, can't trust either of them to own up to their mistakes (even when presented with photographic evidence) and can't trust either of them to be honest and take concern for the health and safety of their customers. Just one of these would be enough to nix a shop, in my book. I wish I had known this before I went there. Stay. AWAY.

Email 1: Wherein I try to be nice

from Angela
to Hannah Cherry askyourpiercer@fattyscustomtattooz.com
cc Josiah
date Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 5:02 PM
subject My tongue piercing


Hi Hannah,

You probably remember me. I was in on Sunday; you pierced my tongue, it went badly, and I asked you to remove it because it swelled so badly that the bottom ball disappeared after a few minutes.

I'm attaching two pictures of my tongue. The first was taken on the day of, the second taken today. As you can see, my saliva glands are getting red and swollen. I'm worried about infection.

I've talked to my regular piercer (and sent him pictures), looked at both of Josiah's tongue piercing placements, and the placement of 2 other friends' tongue piercings. And I did some internet research to confirm. A tongue piercing is not supposed to go through the frenulum. Not only did mine go through the frenulum, but it is fairly far back through the frenulum.

Josiah went in to talk to Fatty today. His response was that he would have to talk to me, in person. Now, as you know, I left DC right after the piercing. I'm in San Francisco now, and don't have any plans to return to DC in the near future. So this isn't possible.

I am asking you for a refund, and asking you to apologize to me for screwing up. I'm happy to talk to you over the phone or even over video chat so you can see that this is really me, but I know that you know you fucked up, and badly. I shouldn't need to prove it to you. Own up to your mistakes, apologize to me, and hope to god I don't end up with some horrific infection.

I have already posted a very negative, very detailed review of you on Yelp. If you apologize and give me a refund, I will amend it to reflect that you at least did this.

Aside from the Yelp review, I will be posting a review on BME as well. I'm going to contact your local department of Health, etc., etc - anyone who might take an interest. I'm going to talk to my regular piercer about other actions I can potentially take. Basically anything I can do to make sure that people know not to get pierced by you. You are putting peoples' health in danger.

If you apologize and give me a refund, again, I will at least include this information in anything I post on the internet about you. I don't think that you should give me a refund or apologize for this reason, however. Ultimately, refunding me the $75 is a symbolic measure, acknowledging you are committed to doing as much as you can to rectify a bad situation of your own creation. It's taking responsibility for your piercings and your actions - something I have always known my regular piercer would do if something went awry.

Angela

Background: What happened

By way of background, this is the account I wrote several hours after I got pierced by Hannah Cherry at Fatty's Custom Tattooz in DC. (It originally went on Yelp).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DO NOT GET PIERCED HERE. I had one of the worst experiences of my life getting my tongue pierced by Hannah at Fatty's. Not just one of my worst experiences with piercings, but one of the worst experiences of my life, full stop.

I normally go to the excellent piercers at Chameleon in Cambridge, MA. I'm no stranger to piercings - I currently have a nostril, industrial, both nipples, two inner labia, and a VCH, but I was in DC and due to work schedules, had to get my tongue there if I was going to get it done. We (my partner and myself) did some investigation on Yelp and settled on Fatty's as the best option. (NB - I have used Yelp a lot but did not join until now and did so specifically to write about my experience with Hannah, because this situation rises to the level of a health and safety risk).

A warning bell to start - everything appeared sterile, but she grumbled that it 'wasn't shop policy' to let us see sterilization procedures, etc. in advance. The cost was a relatively pricey $75 total.

She did appear to follow proper procedures in regards to sterility, but that's where good practice ended. After doing the markings she had me lie down and put on the clamps. The clamps were unusually tight and uncomfortable. Then she did the piercing, no warnings, and it was *excruciatingly painful*. Now, I've heard a lot about tongue piercings, and in fact my partner has two and my boyfriend has one. So I know that tongue piercings are not usually ridiculously painful. What I experienced was far, far worse than anything I've had previously, including my nipples, which are notorious.

After she was finished and was inserting the jewelry, she fumbled and dropped one of the balls, which almost went down my throat. She tried to root around for it (which didn't exactly help with the pain I was feeling) and then gave up. Fortunately I didn't swallow it, and spit it out when she was done.

After she finished I lay there in incredible pain, not sure what was happening, or why it was so painful. I tried to sit up, but felt very woozy, and had to lie down, at which point I think I passed out briefly. As I came to, I noticed that the pain was mostly on the underside of my tongue, and extended from the exit hole to my saliva glands back to what felt like my lymph nodes. I spent a while curled up on her table, unable to move, sweating profusely and coming in and out of consciousness, and after maybe 15 minutes felt good enough to sit up and look at it again in the mirror again. It was then I saw that it had already swelled so much that the bottom ball had disappeared into my tongue! She had used 7/8'', 12 gauge (my understanding is that 1 inch is better, but I hadn't quibbled) but the hole on the underside was so large and/or the barbell was so short that the ball had been subsumed completely inside my tongue. She said 'hm, haven't seen that happen before' and at this point I freaked and asked her to take it out.

We left with me distraught, and they didn't apologize or even offer to refund us for the piercing. When we went outside and looked more closely at the remaining holes, I discovered that she had pierced it much too far back, right through the frenulum! If you are curious you can see a picture at http://www.flickr.com/photos/51408292@N02/4736330079/ This is, as confirmed by my regular piercer, and the placements of all my friends' tongue piercings, very far off from the correct placement, about 1/2cm too far back.

At this point I started worrying because I was unsure whether removing the piercing immediately had put me at a greater risk of infection. My saliva glands were continuing to swell, and my lymph nodes hurt, and I didn't know how bad of signs those were. We called up Greg at Chameleon in Cambridge who very graciously calmed me down and told me that if I cared for it as a regular tongue piercing it should be ok.

Here's hoping (this all happened today). My partner is going to go back and demand a refund from the owner; I had to get on a plane shortly after this incident.

I honestly find it incomprehensible that a piercer could screw up a standard tongue piercing so badly. And not only screw it up, but not be able to recognize/acknowledge that she had and help me figure out what to do. Had I known less about piercings, I quite possibly could have left the shop trying to keep it, and my tongue would have swelled up so badly that I would have lost the barbell inside and had to have it removed surgically.

Tongue piercings are as common and straightforward as piercings come - it scares me to think how badly she might botch something slightly more complicated!

Rereading the piercing Yelp reviews for Fatty's, it seems most of them are for the old piercer (Jason) or for relatively simple ear piercings with Hannah.

Needless to say, avoid Hannah at all costs for a piercing if you value your body.

I'm putting picture updates at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/51408292@N02/